High Schools

“Don’t do education!”

1 Comment / College Prep, High Schools, Teaching, Teaching Music /

By John Gardner

This is a story about how a discouraging professor positively impacted my Philosophy of Education.

My college clarinet teacher didn’t want me in Music Education, arguing that with a ‘performance’ degree, I could teach anywhere “except in a public school”.

He unintentionally challenged me to use relationships and respect as pillars of how I teach. Here’s a paraphrase of what he said:

“You’re a decent clarinetist (in 4yrs, I don’t ever recall him saying I was ‘good’), but there are so many things you do without thinking about them — that you’ll be a terrible teacher. How will you explain playing in tune? You do it, but you can’t tell me how. What are you going to do when your band gets some technically difficult passage, just tell ’em to ‘play it’? How will you explain hearing what you see? A performer never has to explain those things. And besides, you don’t want to waste your time on teenagers. They are high maintenance, make stupid decisions and ruin their lives. And your failures will significantly out number your successes. Don’t do education. Be a performer and get paid for what you can do.”

I was crushed, defeated, depressed and discouraged, choosing to ignore his selfish speech while adapting some of his discouragements as positive aspects of my teaching.

He was a good teacher but a terrible human. He hated students, especially those who “wasted his time”. We learned out of fear, not respect. We never heard him perform, so we could never strive to reach his level. I remember waiting outside his studio, watching the girl exit in tears and crush her reed against the wall …. and then hear…. “Next”. (GULP!) One of his final comments to me, “I’ve wasted four years of my life on you.” But, that was because I ended up with a Music Education degree vs Clarinet Performance. He taught me the instrument and gave me motivation to never be like him.

He influenced me in the areas of Relationships and Respect. Here is an except from my Philosophy of Education.

I invest heavily in Relationship Building. I want to know my students. By knowing their situations outside of the classroom (family, financial, etc) I can better know how to effectively relate in the classroom. If I see online that the family cat died the night before, I can understand and empathize with a mood that could otherwise be misidentified as a bad attitude. A phrase I use periodically is that I “love, admire and respect” my students, and they know it. My office desk tends to be a hang out area before and after school and rehearsals. And when students are congregating in the band room, I often join them.

I want my students to Respect me because, 1) they know I care and have their best interests in mind, and 2) they know I know what I’m doing. Here’s a memorable example:

In a clarinet sectional, we were working on scales and I was trying to get students to play faster. One stopped me with, “That’s as fast as a clarinet can go.” That gave me an opportunity to demonstrate that a clarinet, could indeed, go faster.

So THEN…. they are willing to listen as I go into detail about WHY they need to practice scales and HOW to practice them to increase proficiency.

I DO education without ever telling a student that he/she wastes my time.

Thanks for reading.

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“Getting out of the rut” no longer works with teens

Leave a Comment / Assistant Directing, Classroom Teacher, High Schools, Teaching Music /

By John Gardner

RutsI came into a program that was stable, consistent, well-rounded — but with few exceptional accomplishments in marching band competition. I told them,

“If you keep doing the things you’ve been doing, you’ll keep getting the results you’ve been getting.”

I tried to use the analogy of “getting out of the rut”. It did NOT register. I now know why.

…

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“Getting out of the rut” no longer works with teens Read More »

Special Education for High Achievers

Leave a Comment / College Prep, High Schools, Parenting, Teaching, Teaching Music, Uncategorized /

The world is full of mediocrity. Have you ever had a student at the “other” end of the special ed spectrum? You know…. the end that also requires extra teacher input and attention; where it is just as challenging to keep this student engaged as it is the lower-achieving student? Why is the term “special needs student” only used at one end of the spectrum?

I once sat in on a public discussion meeting where a high-achieving group was challenging a scheduling change. I was shocked when I heard one of the presenters say,

We’re not here to teach the elite. We’re here to teach the masses.

Think about that.

It is as though we’re all about not leaving a child behind, but also about not letting anyone get ahead either. At the lower end of the proficiency spectrum, we have organized “special” education with additional classrooms and facilities, employing both certified and classified staff. We develop IEP’s (Individualized Education Plan) for about 12% of our public school student body (Institute of Education Sciences) and require all building teachers to accommodate each of those individual needs.

But what about the 6% of Gifted & Talented student(s), at the high end of the spectrum; those who ace the test, ruin the curve, and yet still do all the extra credit — just because it is there? For them, there are no additional classrooms and facilities, specially trained staff, and IEP’s. The easiest thing to do is re-assign them as “mentors” or “tutors” so that we can pull everyone into the mediocre middle. That is the educationally correct thing to do, but who does it help …. and does it also hinder? We teach to the middle and use the achievers to help. We love the star quarterback but not the star student.

Yes, let’s do all we can to help every student, but let’s help every student. Compare the long term benefits of our lopsided investment for both students and society. When you hear about the top technology and other highly skilled jobs going to students from overseas, where do you think those countries are investing? As we correctly strive to leave no child behind, may we also more aggressively assist the academic achievers?

There are teachers who recognize the high achievers and provide individual challenges. We do have “AP” (Advanced Placement) classes designed to better prepare students for college….. but which colleges?

As you listen to or read about politicians, lawyers or surgeons focus, on the schools they attended. Are state schools bad? That’s not what I’m saying, but many of them are teaching “to the masses”.

I went to both a large, inner-city public high school and a super-sized state university. I sat in freshmen writing and lecture classes with 200+ students in a lecture hall with a graduate assistant on a microphone who would never know my name. One of my sons, while a doctoral candidate at an Ivy League university, taught a freshman writing class with 15 students…. and of the three classes he taught, that was his largest. Am I claiming that not all colleges are created equal? YES!

School systems celebrate when test scores are slightly above the state “averages”. What is average? Mediocre? So, we’re all about being slightly above mediocre?

I’m tired of being the geek. I’m tired of ruining the curve. I’m tired of making people mad because I do the extra credit anyway. I want to go to a school where I can be normal, where it is okay to be an achiever.

I heard this quote when I was asking a high school senior about the choice of college. When the principal learned about his Valedictorian’s college choice, he shared his opinion:

Why not go to [XU], it is the biggest state school…..everybody goes there. It is affordable. Why out of state at such an expensive school?

I know because I talk to both students and parents, that the experience of the student quoted above is not unique.

Low achievers are helped. High achievers are heckled.

My parental experience raising two high achieving academic students is that:

…for us the system worked, but we had to work the system.

With the attitude and determination evidenced by the geek quote, he chose Duke. His SAT score was slightly above the “average” there. He went in as one of nearly 500 high school valedictorians and graduated in the top 1%, but that was okay there, where he was expected to achieve and encouraged to excel. Unlike public high schools, which must take everybody and do the best they can to educate all…..there are schools, both high school and college, that specialize. Here is a paragraph from one such school’s admissions brochure(emphasis mine):

    We want to find the ambitious and the curious, students who want to tackle issues head-on and are open to change. Ours is a community of talented learners, and we look for people who have unique qualities, who can challenge us as much as we challenge them. We want some bumps. We want some students who are well-rounded, some with sharp edges. We want people who are not afraid to undertake things that are messy, complex, and extremely difficult to do well—because they love it. We like students who already know what it means to succeed and those who know what it means to reach and not succeed and reach again. We like students who make intelligent and interesting mistakes, students who understand that only in risking failure do we become stronger, better, and smarter.

Let me be clear. We could not have afforded to pay the $58,000 sticker price of a [“top tier”] University education. As I was balking at the “early decision contract” on the admissions office table, they responded to my financial panic with:

If we decide we want him, we will get him here.

And they did. They didn’t make it cheap and they didn’t make it easy, but they DID make it possible for us to pay less than what we would have paid for an in-state public university. Our total contribution for eight years of college for two was about $32,000. Our total contribution for eight years of college for two was about $32,000. That’s $2,000 per semester. Where can you go to a school for a price like that?

All education should be “special”, right?

Thanks for reading,
John@VirtualMusicOffice.com

ps Every time I’ve written about variations of this topic, I get blasted with negative feedback. The goal is not arrogance or elitism, but to encourage those who ARE achievers, or who want to be by pointing out that there are solutions for you too. And….to dispel the myths that college is all about who can afford what. Here are my bullet points:

  • Don’t choose the cheapest school based on $$$
  • Good Grades Do Pay
  • Be proactive vs reactive; make it happen, don’t just let it happen. Plan it, don’t wing it.
    • Plan Academically
    • Plan Financially
    • Plan to be Well-Rounded
    • Plan to Know before you GO

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Private lessons can be like paying for college…1 week at a time

Leave a Comment / College Prep, High Schools, Solo Prep, Teaching, Teaching Music /

By John Gardner

I was sitting in the driveway of my son’s trumpet teacher writing out a check.

The teacher had requested going from a half hour lesson to an hour. I recall the teacher’s response when I asked if there was a discount for the double-session…..

You get me for twice the time at twice the price.

As I wrote out the check, I shared a sentiment with my son,

I consider this an investment in your college career. I hope I am paying for your college one week at a time….and by the time you’re ready to graduate that you will be good enough that a college will pay for you.

He worked — and his did. This video is a portion of his senior recital. He had the flashy stuff too, but I thought his tone was fantastic….. I had the honor of guest conducting his high school band, which accompanied him on this same piece during his high school final semester.

https://youtu.be/ok9YbPyMcf4

Private lessons (coaching / mentoring) provides much more than that…

…even for students who will NOT be majoring in music in college. …

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Private lessons can be like paying for college…1 week at a time Read More »

You can’t say that

Assistant Directing, Communication, High Schools, Personal experience, Public Schools, School Security, Social Media, Social Media, Teaching /

You can't say thatAccounts of recent separations of news personalities from their employers remind me of a time my boss told me,

“You can’t say that.”

Years ago, on a hot sunny mid-day, our high school was evacuated over a threat. One of my thoughts at the time was wondering what was going through the minds of those stopped in traffic as 1500+ students, teachers, and staff crossed the state highway en masse. After accounting for all the students who left class, we sat in the football stadium bleachers until the end of the school day when busses and parents picked up students from the stadium rather than the high school. The congestion and confusion on that side street was significant.

The afternoon was especially stressful to those who had to work through the safety protocols to ensure students left only with a legal guardian. How do you call the school when the school is evacuated? How and to whom are calls forwarded? And what about student records with parent/guardian names and information in an area without computers and connections? How do they sign out from a remote location? Parents were frustrated as everyone was trying to do the right thing in a setting we had never before experienced. I should note that the communication and information issues of that day were addressed.

My uncovered bald head was significantly sunburned in those nearly three hours. By the time I got home, my head hurt and I was angry, especially after learning all that was the result of one student’s prank. I made an ill-advised comment on personal social media that punishment should include affixing the offender to the schoolyard flag pole and allowing all who spent those 2-3 hours in the stadium sun file by to express thoughts of the experience.

I should not have said that and I deleted the post, but not before someone shared it with the building boss, who called me to his office the next day. With a copy of my post in his hand, he not-quite laughingly said that, although he might feel the same way, “you can’t say that”.

I wasn’t fired.

 

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Virginia Beach Music Festival and the 3rd Floor Balcony

2 Comments / High Schools, Marching Band, Personal experience, Storytelling, Throw Back Thursday /

The Virginia Beach Music Festival was a multi-day event that included competitions in Marching, Concert, Parade, Jazz, and Inspection. 

Normally a band year has multiple seasons. Summer and Fall are mostly Marching Band. Some competitions included an inspection element, which included standing at attention for about 15 minutes while someone went through with white gloves and inspected selected instruments and uniforms. Marching season transitions into Concert Band — and Jazz Band starts up. Late Spring and early Summer is parade season. 

To prepare for Virginia Beach, all that had to be going on simultaneously. 

During school, the concert band would rehearse. Jazz Band was after school and evenings were a combination of marching, parade and inspection practice.

The campus had a long driveway that we used, but would often go through a couple of the neighborhood blocks. Inspections involved Copenhaver’s paddle. We would stand at attention and he would walk in front of us, stopping to stare and to grab and check instruments. If anything was wrong, he’d say, “That’s one”, which meant he would get you with the paddle when he got behind you, which could be several minutes later. And if you moved when he whacked you, guess what. Right. I never got the paddle. 

The first time Holmes participated in 1969, (my Freshman year) Holmes was Grand Champion. We returned in 1970 as “Honor Band” for the event. 

Director Copenhaver was from Virginia and our two Greyhound busses stoped at a park near his hometown for a community-provided picnic. I remember one of the busses got stuck crossing a small creek. 

Two memorable events at the hotel we used. First, was one evening during the week when Mr. Copenhaver was in the parking lot and looked up at many of us on the balconies and said, 

“They know we’re here.”

Other than when actually winning an event, it was the happiest I recall him looking and sounding. 

The other was an evening when a group of seniors came knocking on our door. I was in a room with three other freshmen boys. They were there for “initiation”, which normally included some combination of ice down the underwear with shaving cream there and everywhere else — and then locked out of the room. 

The four of us (I think we all four), went over the balcony. The floors were close enough together that we could go from floor to floor…. Until we could jump to the ground. 

I can’t believe I did that. 

But I never experienced “initiation”. And I never did that to anyone else.

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When you hear that students today are behind

Leave a Comment / High Schools, Public Schools, Teaching, Teaching Music /

By John Gardner

I’m not going to defend some of today’s diluted, politically correct, expanded curricula when compared to what students learned decades (or centuries) ago. The Huffington Post published this 8th grade exam from 100 years ago and ask if you could pass it today.

I don’t ever recall, as a student, having to spend school time on bullying or suicide prevention, tolerance, drugs, sex, active-shooter and lock-down drills. I’ve participated in mandatory teacher training on bullying. We provide “digital citizenship” training worth several class periods for using those free iPads we gave them. Schools test to test that teachers’ tests are testing appropriate levels, that teachers are teaching and students are learning.
 
WHAT students must learn today is so much more complex than what students needed to know back in a previous century. Below is a good visual. It would have been much easier to learn to identify and differentiate the crayon colors available in the 1903 vs today, wouldn’t you agree?

Just sayin’.

Crayon Colors

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3 Types of Thriving Teens

Leave a Comment / College Prep, High Schools, Public Schools, Respect, Teaching /

By John Gardner

On three

1. Good Teens thrive BECAUSE of their parents

For one group, I give much credit to good parenting. These are the parents who are active and involved in their teen’s life. They’re on the PTO, in the band/choir/athletic booster groups, they come to watch practices, performances or games, they volunteer to help and they put up the money that most worth while ventures require. Some, are more behind the scenes supporting, enabling  and encouraging. Outside of school activities, the family is together a lot. Maybe there isn’t a lot of money for fancy vacations, but they find ways to do things together anyway. Single parents and those who have remarried can also do fantastic jobs. My heart goes out to those super parents who are experiencing what author James Dobson calls “the strong-willed child”.

Keep the faith and keep doing what you’re doing. The teen will figure it out eventually.

2. Good Teens thrive IN SPITE of their parents

A second group, and one that I especially admire, are those teens who turn out great “in spite of”  their parents. These are the teens who“ have every reason (mostly by example) to crash and burn, and yet, they determine NOT to follow the paths of their parents and instead, commit themselves to a better life.

I’m not faulting single, lower-income, laid off or otherwise challenged parents doing the best they can. My parents divorced when I (oldest of 5) was in 7th grade. My mother was a polio-survivor without a car. We didn’t have it easy but we had love and support — and we all survived.

I DO fault those who could but don’t share or support the child’s enthusiasm for a worthy activity.

Your child knows, is hurt, embarrassed and deflated by your lack of support.

A high school clarinet student once tell me,

“My dad has never heard me play.”

You will only have that child in your care for a short time.

I was outside our band entrance door greeting students arriving for rehearsal. The car stopped and both student and parent got out. The girl ran to me, in tears, frantically exclaiming, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry!” before running into the building. Behind her came the papa with the band schedule in hand. There was no warm, fuzzy response to my “Hi, how ya doin’?” Instead, he almost slapped me in the face with the schedule as he grunted, “How much of this schedule is mandatory?” After my response, “All of it.”, he mumbled something I wouldn’t print even if I heard it clearly. The daughter was waiting for me in the office, still crying, and apologizing for what she was sure I had endured. My respect and admiration for her attitude and work ethic skyrocketed after that.

A sophomore asked me for some personal clarinet coaching. Things were going great until she came in one day tearfully explaining she had to quit. She had gotten a job to pay for her lessons, because her parents would not, and when they learned how she was spending her earnings, they started charging her rent.

I continued her lessons anyway.

Another student came in from the parking lot to ask for some help with a flat tire. He called his mother while the other director and I taught him how to change a tire. To get to the spare, he had to unhook the huge woofer in the trunk. The mother and boyfriend arrived and, instead of thanking us for staying or trying to help, boyfriend starts screaming at the teen, “How dare you let somebody else touch my car. This isn’t over, kid.”

These are the students we find walking home after the concert, football game, or competition — because they know their parents will not come pick them up. Some get their own jobs to raise their own money to pay the participation fees, even earning money to go on trips.

3. Good Teens thrive because of who they are

Some teens naturally have what it takes for greatness. Natural greatness combined with good parenting is definitely a winning combination.

Thanks for reading.

John

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Just another band prank

Leave a Comment / Assistant Directing, High Schools, Marching Band, Personal experience, Respect, Teaching, Teaching Music /

We were returning home late at night from a long drive return from an out-of-state visit. In a tired way, I reach down in the dark to open the door. It took us a while to get a flashlight and determine what had happened. I love bandsters. They do fun things without damaging anything.

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Using Band as Punishment

1 Comment / High Schools, Parenting, Repost, Teaching, Teaching Music /

Band PunishmentBy John Gardner

Teens can be quite the challenge sometimes, but I thoroughly enjoy engaging their youthful enthusiasm as they shape their futures by making decisions and learning from the decisions they make.

Sometimes they make poor decisions and need instruction, correction or discipline, but using band as punishment is excessive and harmful. Using band as punishment is like using water boarding for failing to cut the grass. Help teens thrive, don’t treat them like terrorists.

Thriving Teens – 3 types

1. Good Teens BECAUSE of their parents

For one group, I give much credit to good parenting. Good parenting doesn’t guarantee good teens, but it certainly increases the odds. These are the parents who are active and involved in their teen’s life. They’re on the PTO, in the band/choir/athletic booster groups, they come to watch practices, performances or games, they volunteer to help and they put up the money that most worth while ventures require. Some, are more behind the scenes supporting, enabling  and encouraging. Outside of school activities, the family is together a lot. Maybe there isn’t a lot of money for fancy vacations, but they find ways to do things together anyway. Single parents and those who have remarried can also do fantastic jobs. My heart goes out to those super parents who are experiencing what author James Dobson calls “the strong-willed child”. Keep the faith and keep doing what you’re doing. The teen will figure it out eventually.

2. Good Teens IN SPITE of their parents

A second group, and one that I especially admire, are those teens who turn out great “in spite of”  their parents. These are the teens who“ have every reason (mostly by example) to crash and burn, and yet, they determine NOT to follow the paths of their parents and instead, commit themselves to a better life.

I’m not faulting single, lower-income, laid off or otherwise challenged parents doing the best they can, but rather those who don’t share or support the child’s enthusiasm for a worthy activity.

Your child knows, is hurt, embarrassed and deflated by your lack of support.

A high school clarinet student once tell me,

“my dad has never heard me play.”

You will only have that child in your care for a short time.

I was outside our band entrance door greeting students arriving for rehearsal. The car stopped and both student and parent got out. The girl ran to me, in tears, frantically exclaiming, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry!” before running into the building. Behind her came the papa with the band schedule in hand. There was no warm, fuzzy response to my “Hi, how ya doin’?” Instead, he almost slapped me in the face with the schedule as he grunted, “How much of this schedule is mandatory?” After my response, “All of it.”, he mumbled something I wouldn’t print even if I heard it clearly. The daughter was waiting for me in the office, still crying, and apologizing for what she was sure I had endured. My respect and admiration for her attitude and work ethic skyrocketed after that.

A sophomore asked me for some personal clarinet coaching. Things were going great until she came in one day tearfully explaining she had to quit. She had gotten a job to pay for her lessons, because her parents would not, and when they learned how she was spending her earnings, they started charging her rent.

Another student came in from the parking lot to ask for some help with a flat tire. He called his mother while the other director and I taught him how to change a tire. To get to the spare, he had to unhook the huge woofer in the trunk. The mother and boyfriend arrived and, instead of thanking us for staying or trying to help, boyfriend starts screaming at the teen, “How dare you let somebody else touch my car. This isn’t over, kid.”

3. Good Teens Naturally

Some teens naturally have what it takes for greatness. Natural greatness combined with good parenting is definitely a winning combination.

Struggling teens and families

I understand some of the hardships. The 5 children in MY family were successfully raised by a determined, suddenly single, polio-surviving mother who was a stay-at-home mom 12 years before landing the single-parenting role. Some of her start-up challenges, in addition to parenting alone, included finding a job, day care and a car. I’m not sure where my life would have gone if mom had used band as punishment for some of the teen mischief and turmoil I instigated.

Single parents are extra busy working, exhausted from working one or more jobs. When I encouraged a student to encourage her mother to chaperone so she wouldn’t have to buy gas to the competitions, the girl replied,

“My mother can’t come. She is working three jobs.”

Living arrangements, transportation, schedules, finances and family politics aren’t easy. Juggling bedrooms in two houses, or spending summers with the non-custodial parent adds to teen stress.  There is only one car and the parent has it at work. Older children must babysit younger siblings, making after school activities difficult. Some become pawns for their competing and vindictive parents. They mature quickly coping with blended families, step-siblings, step-parents (and entire new families) and parents’ new loves. Many handle it better than I did.

In “functional” families, when one parent avoids the student’s activities, even when a genuine work conflict, teens perceive that their activity doesn’t rate with the absent parent.

I had a student several years ago who’s father NEVER came to anything. Even at her high school graduation, the father walked into the gym at about the time his daughter’s name was to be called, shot a 2-minute video, and left the arena. I don’t meet some parents until I visit the graduating senior’s open house party.

Using Band as Punishment

Good parenting sometimes requires a consequence for bad behavior, but using band as punishment is not a good choice.

A common tactic in disciplining teens is withholding something valued; driving privilege, cell phone, Internet, freedom (grounding). I can’t tell you how many times I hear variations of

“I get my phone back in 5 days”….

In that spirit of taking away something valuable, however, some parents include band. A few examples from recent years:

  • ….student must come home after school, even though there is a scheduled rehearsal. Part of the punishment is the grade cut and the confrontation with the director.
  • Parent: “We want to pull him out of band. We’ve just been having lots of problems with him lately.”
    Dir: “Are any of those problems related to band?”
    Parent: “No, but we’ve already grounded him and taken away his cell phone. He likes band, so we want to pull him out so he’ll get the point.”
  • Parent: “Here is a copy of our contract with our child. We’ll let him stay in band if he adheres to this agreement.”
    Dir: “According to this, you want to pull him out of band if he misses a single homework assignment or gets a C on any quiz or test? If that is your absolute standard, then you might as well change the schedule now, because very few teens can guarantee you that they will NEVER have a bad day on a quiz or test and I don’t want to have to fill that hole later.”
  • Parent: “This just isn’t working. She needs to come straight home after school every day.”
    Dir: “On days were we have after school rehearsal, can she not come straight home immediately following rehearsal? What did she do?”
    Parent: “Her room is a mess.”

Problems of Using Band as Punishment

  1. It affects the grade. Some short-sighted parents see an advantage in this. As a teacher, I don’t. Grades matter when it comes time to apply for college admission, scholarships and jobs.
  2. It hurts the band. Band is a team activity. Grounding someone from a rehearsal, performance, or pulling them out of the program mid-season hurts everybody.

For some people, band is the best thing that could happen for them. They gain acceptance as a valued member of a group made up of a wide variety of people. They make friends, some lasting a lifetime. They learn things that will help them in the corporate (or whatever) world; chain of command, respect, discipline, work ethic, commitment, and more. Some, who will never be the highest academically or the strongest athletically can find and use their leadership skills in band. Or they discover the value of being an active, valued participant in a large team effort. One student, when receiving his show shirt almost teared up as he said to me,

“I’ve never been a part of a group before.” 

A graduating senior told me how grateful she was for band “because of what it kept me away from”.

Everyone knows that only a small percentage of those in band will actually make a vocation from music. But having been in band can be something treasured for a lifetime. When visiting some of my former students in a band reunion in southern Indiana, a former flute student, who is now a doctor, credited band for helping her get thru the 10 or so years of schooling it took for her to become a physician. A bi-vocational pastor said band got him away from his drinking/drug buddies and helped him turn his life around.

Why then, other than the fact that they can have some satisfaction that they truly “hurt” that mis-behaving teenager, would a parent want to take a child out of an activity that has so much to offer?

Take using band as punishment off the table. Stick with grounding or withholding privileges if you must, but don’t use band or athletics as a bargaining chip. No on wins in that scenario, including the parent.

Thanks for reading my vent. Am I wrong? Need help?

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